Are you a betting man? revisited

I was just thinking about this again this morning.  What would it take to end the controversy?  A friendly bet? Something that would satisfy even the most hard core skeptic?  How could you arrange this?

There's somebody I won't name who might be interested in seeing, but not necessarily betting, on a possibility of just testing this thing under certain conditions.  One that might satisfy him would be to collect the water that goes through the E-cat, and then measure the heat in it and its mass.  This would take place after shutdown.

I checked the amount going through the E-cat on the Oct 6 test.  The rate was  .91 g per sec.  That figures out to  3276 g or 3.276 liters per hour.  Multiply that by 8 hours for a test and you get 26.208 liters for an entire test.  The idea is to insulate it so that it would keep its heat throughout.  Such a container would not be terribly big.  It could be insulated and a small pump installed that could keep the water mixed.

One problem is that the water is actually steam, so it has to be cooled down a little before going into the container.  To do that, just repeat that part of the test that was done on Oct 6th.  Run it through some heat exchangers until it got below the boiling point, then let it go into the container.  Then you can measure the heat from that process, plus the remaining heat in the container in order to measure all of the heat generated during the test.

A second problem is from the secondary water source.  I'm thinking of making this a small scale demo so that we won't have to use much hardware.  That means cooling this water down too so that it doesn't get too hot.

In order to do this, just set up a radiator, such as one that you may see in a car.  This can cool down the water so that you can recirculate it over and over again.  We are measuring the delta t at the heat exchanger, so it doesn't have to be any one set temperature.  Just as long as the difference is such that it can cool down the steam coming off the E-cat.

In the Oct. 6th test, the rate of flow on the secondary heat exchange was 640 liters per hour.   That would require a pretty large container.  In order to avoid that, the radiator can be called upon to cool the water back down.  Perhaps a fan that blows through the radiator would be helpful as well.  Perhaps at this point, you could limit the amount of water at the secondary to about 80 liters, or about the size of a 20 gal barrel.

At 640 liters per hour, it would circulate the complete contents of the barrel 8 times every hour.  This means that it has about 8 minutes to cool down after going through the radiator.  This may be enough to keep it cool. The return could come in at the top and be drawn from the bottom.  It would first go through the radiator and then empty back into the barrel.  You would need a pump that could pump at that rate for that long. Probably no big deal.

In terms of equipment, you now have 3 20 gal barrels, two of them filled with water.  One of these is to go through the E-cat, and one would go through the heat exchanger.  The third is to collect the water and measure its temperature at the end of the test.  It could be already half full, since you are not going to use all of that one barrel.  This third barrel will be fully insulated and have a pump to recirculate the water so that it always well mixed.

The location of the test should be remote in order to eliminate the possibility of any hidden energy source.

To test remotely, you need to be far away from the grid.  That means a portable generator which can power up the E-cat device until it reaches self sustain mode.  The generator will need to run the pumps and so forth. Such a generator wouldn't be all that big.  It just needs to be big enough to do this task, which isn't all that demanding.

All of this equipment could fit into a van, I would estimate.  The generator, the 3 barrels, the pumps, the control equipment and the E-cat unit itself.  None of these items are all that big.  It shouldn't be too demanding a task to get it all into a van.

Take the van out into the countryside, and set up the equipment.  Run the test.  Take the measurements and see who's right.

The costs?  You may be able to rent some of this stuff, so you won't have to buy it.  It shouldn't be terribly expensive.

The last part may be the most difficult.  Getting an E-cat to test.  That may mean buying one.  Who would want to buy one of these things?  Not me.  Rossi wants 2k for each kilowatt.  A 2.7 killowatt device would cost 5400 bucks.  You would need to buy one and set the sucker up and so forth.  The test could run in the thousands of dollars.  Then you would have to have a way to judge who won the bet.

If enough people wanted to, they could set up the scenario and share the expense.  The losers would end up paying for the test.

Let's say it would cost 10 grand to buy an E-cat and set it up.  If you can get enough people to get in on the bet, you may be able to cover that cost by a factor of two.  Then you would need even money on the bet.

Twenty grand may do it.  Ten grand to buy the E-cat and set it up.  Ten grand purse to pay the winners and make it a no lose if you win.  The losers lose their ten grand.

Cold Fusion Enigma, Secrets Remain--- Fleischmann Pons IV

In the last post of this series, I mentioned the fact that the video Fire from Water was worth watching again and again.  It so happens that Miley was in that video, in which is shown from a screenshot here:

As before, you can learn a lot from that video by watching.  Anyway, since Miley recently mentions Patterson in connection with Rossi- while Patterson's work was also mentioned in the video as well.

CETI power cell

But my most recent post, Dr. Les Case figures in this.  It seems that Case had a way to sustain a certain temperature, but what if that device could be improved upon somehow?  That's the idea I got by watching this video again.  Case says in the video that his device could hold 215 degree Centigrade.  Is that hot enough? What if you could make it hotter?

If you were to have Case's device plus a nickel hydrogen device combined, the cell could get hotter than this, or so I postulate.

I recall the Brillouin Energy device described by Godes.  This obviously produces energy, but what if it isn't enough to keep it self sustaining.  Now, if you were to combine both, they could both sustain each other.

Another thing I found was mentioned by Edmund Storms where he says that the sonic device will load the hydrogen in the metal better.

And that one of the cold fusion techniques used involves the use of ultra sound.  That could be the "Q" that Godes refers to.

Now, if you were to combine all these, you can get a device that produces enough heat to sustain itself.

There's but one more thing to be mastered, if my hypothesis is correct.  Rossi needs to produce just enough electricity to run his "frequency" input so as to have absolutely no energy input while producing the heat output demonstrated on Oct 6th.

Furthermore, Rossi's device could produce enough electricity to run something like a light bulb continuously for days on end, that should remove all doubt that may remain about its efficacy.

Cheap power: An overnight revolution -- Commentary

By Sterling D. Allan, Pure Energy Systems News

excerpts:

• When considering the logarithmically diminished time it takes to achieve 25% market penetration since the automobile was introduced a century ago (it took a century for it to reach 25%), and more recently the mobile phone took just 13 years, and the web took 7 years; it's conceivable that free energy, starting with Rossi's E-Cat, could take just 3 years.  "Note: I've added a projection for the appearance of "Free Energy" technologies into the marketplace, and how long it will take to reach use by 1/4 of the U.S. Population".
• Mark Gibbs, a columnist for NetworkWorld, has published an excellent article about Andrea Rossi's E-Cat technology, portraying how it could impact the world, if it is for real. It was picked up by ComputerWorld in Norway. 
•  But hot fusion is not what the E-Cat does[;] and, while much of the commentary on this device characterizes it as "cold fusion," Rossi claims that it isn't actually cold fusion at all but involves a Low-Energy Nuclear Reaction (I can't figure out what the difference between cold fusion and LENR might be from the research I've done). [ Comment: the difference between cold fusion and LENR may be the difference between protons and neutrons.  But don't quote me on that.]
• So, here's the question: Let's assume Rossi's E-Cat works. What then?
• Production costs for anything would fall. The power grid would become obsolete. Power stations of all kinds would no longer be an environmental problem. The balance of economic power worldwide would change and, for example, OPEC would become a historical footnote. [ Comment:  This goes a bit too far.  But the change would be noticeable.]
• You thought the adoption of the Web was fast? This could change everything overnight.

Comment:

I can see where some may think of this as a bit of hype.  However, the pace of change is quickening.  Some folks have called that the Singularity.

• 
  

Unofficial says "Andy the Grump"

I got the link to this video from the Talk:Energy Catalyzer page on Wikipedia.

Someone (ip address only) put the video up and the above title was the response to it.  It wasn't given much respect.  I would hope that they would take down such posts as abusive.  If it isn't relevant as Grump also said, the post should be deleted.

If you were to look at this as a court case, would Mats Lewan be considered as a reliable witness to what he saw?  His opinions would probably not be accepted as expert testimony.  Would a scientist from Upsalla be considered reliable?  His opinions may have some weight.  Given his opinion and what Lewan saw, I don't think that it should be considered unreliable as to what they saw and the one scientists' opinion.  If it was put before a court, and I was in a jury asked to decide upon it, I would need more than what I've read in criticism about it in order to give the criticisms any importance.  Those who were there are to be given more credibility.

Krivit inspected the device once before, but what he said this time is not to be taken seriously.  That was a different demonstration.  And Krivit is not a scientist, so I have noticed.  If he is, he is not mentioning it on the website he contributes to.  This means that his words carry less weight than Lewan's and definitely less weight than the scientist.

You may disagree as to the significance of what the video represents, but treating it with disrespect is a bit out of bounds.

Are we on the Brink of an Energy Revolution?

Andrea Rossi to Build 1MW Power Plant --- by Al Fin, Oil Price.com via Real Clear Energy

Key quote:

...want to know if an entire new branch of physics is about to be opened, with all the possibilities for new scientific knowledge and technology which that might mean

Comment:

Cold Fusion is going to cause a lot of people's heads to explode.  Professors hate to rewrite their textbooks.

Krivit's claims of failure of the E-cat

I haven't bothered to read Krivit until this very morning.  I have to say that I am shocked.

He claims failure, but I really don't buy what he says.  I'm sure Krivit has far more credentials than I do. What he says may be believed by those who would weigh what one says against the other.  But I think that he is wrong- on the basis of what he says himself.

It appears to me that he is ignoring the energy that is going out continuously during the heat up phase.  Does he not understand the basic set up?  The set up, as I understand it, was to measure the heat exchanged from the E-cat via a heat exchanger away from the E-cat.  It doesn't matter how the water got heated, the heat exchanger at that point would measure any heat source regardless of how it got there.

Krivit assumes a heat buildup which runs the E-cat in self sustain mode. Hah! This is either a deliberate distortion or he simply doesn't get the set up.  Energy is always flowing out.  Always.

So, during the buildup phase, energy is flowing out of the E-cat into the secondary heat exchanger.  The evidence of this is provided by the data.

Therefore, you can measure energy production which was occurring during the buildup.   It appeared to me that the E-cat was already producing more energy than it was consuming.  Again, this is based upon the continuous flow of energy that was being measured throughout the test.

The electrical energy measured going into the heater was being measured by a device. You can calculate the energy there as input.  The steam output was measured at the E-cat, and once again at the secondary heat exchanger.  You can watch the heat buildup phase and, then as it got to 100 degree Centigrade, the boiling point of water, the secondary temperatures begin to rise.  This indicates a heat exchange taking place at that location.  This is how the output energy was calculated.  The delta t's ( change in temperature) allowed you to calculate the output energy based upon the assumption that you were dealing with water.  Given the fact that it began to record heat exchange at the boiling point of water, it would seem to confirm that it was indeed, water.

People seem to be throwing crap against the wall and hope that something sticks.

Get real.

Better graph showing net energy from E-cat test of Oct. 6, 2011

Peswiki

You can see that the area under the curve for the "Potenza OUT"  ( output power) is greater than the area under the "Potenza Resistore" ( power resistor, input power to run the heater)  Or input power vs output power.  Time shift it toward the right and the whole curve will fit under the output curve.

http://imgur.com/a/iwZQ8

Update:
This video shows the apparatus in detail. It is now on YouTube. I saw this on Ny Teknik already, but it is also handy on YouTube now.

Basically, you can see where and how the delta t's were obtained for the graph above. Delta t, or change in temperature, is one of the data points needed to calculate the power. The other is the water flow, also shown as 600 liters per hr.

How can 30% of nickel in Rossi’s reactor be transmuted into copper?

by Dott. Giuliano Bettini Retired. Earlier: Selenia SpA, Rome and IDS SpA, Pisa Also Adjunct Professor at the University of PisaAdjunct Professor at Naval Academy, Leghorn (Italian Navy) link via Rossi's site or blog

This is as good of a post that can describe in as simple a fashion as possible how the E-cat may work.  It depends upon one of the many theories that attempts to explain cold fusion.  Frankly, I like the BECNF theory a bit better.  Why?

Simple, really.  I read about Bose Einstein condensates many years ago.  I think it is fair to say that you favor that which you are most familiar.  I am not familiar with Stremmenos' theory.  It is as simple as that.  It would be incorrect to say that I think one theory is better than another.  I do not know the answer to that question.

It is, after all, a post that I categorize as "armchair physics".  Not professional.  I make no such claims.  It is an attempt by yours truly to understand something that is difficult, and to try to discuss it in an intelligent manner. Hopefully, I don't botch it too badly.

Now, for Stremmenos' theory. Again, not trying to botch it too badly, so here goes a little ditty on that.

There is such a thing as muon catalyzed fusion.  Muons exist and are, for want of a better explanation, are like "heavy" electrons.  They are negatively charged, like electrons, but aren't electrons.  So, they can balance out the electrical charge of a proton, which is the nucleus of a hydrogen atom.  The heaviness of the muon shrinks the size of the hydrogen atom.  It then becomes something like Stremmenos' mini atom.  The mini atom (muon proton combo) tunnels through the Coulomb barrier and fuses with the nucleus.  Ta da!  You have fusion. That's muon catalyzed fusion.

But Stremmenos doesn't depend upon muons, but some other mechanism for making mini atoms.  Let's look at a quote from that post:

it is conceivable that, for a very short time period (e.g. 10ˆ-18 sec), a series of neutral mini atoms of hydrogen could be formed, in an unstable state, of various size and energy level, distributed within the Fermi band, which is enlarged due to the very short time (Heisenberg).

The neutral mini-atoms of high energy and very short wave length – which is in phase with the “cyclic” orbit (de Broglie) – are statistically captured be the nickel nuclei of the crystal structure with the speed of nuclear reactions (10ˆ-20 sec).

It appears that the mini atoms can exist for a long enough period to be captured.  That's because 10 ^-18 is a bigger number than 10 ^-20 . The mini atoms exist long enough for the nuclear reaction to take place. I think that may be the key understanding here. That is, if I didn't botch it.

Update:

You get steam heat from that reaction

Free Energy Truth: Rossi eCat US Partner Firm: Is It KPCB?

Rossi eCat US Partner Firm: Is It KPCB?

Comment: What got my attention was the Bloom Box.   I've never heard of it before.  It appears to work, as it has several well known corporations who are using it.

Anyway, there's not a whole lot of time to comment upon the Free Energy post linked above.  I wanted to make note of the Bloom Box.

I don't understand the Bloom Box, you see.  I need to get up to date on that.  If it looks good, I will have something to post about it later, time permitting.

Update:

The Bloom Box uses Scandium, a rare element, usually found with Rare Earths.  These can be found on the moon.  They can be found on the Earth as well, but evidently not in great abundance as I quote from Wikipedia:

 The absence of reliable, secure, stable and long term production has limited commercial applications of scandium. Despite this low level of use, scandium offers significant benefits. Particularly promising is the strengthening of aluminium alloys with as little as 0.5% scandium. Scandium-stabilized zirconia enjoys a growing market demand for use as a high efficiency electrolyte in solid oxide fuel cells.

What about making Scandium?  You can try to make it from Calcium, if you have neutrons.  But that looks to be easier said than done.

Just conquer space and all this stuff will be in such abundance that you won't know what to do with it all.

Rossi Focardi E-cat

This is obviously a hot topic.  For those who are new to this blog, you could probably find everything relating to Rossi Focardi under Energy.  But this topic has become so hot, that I am giving it it's own label.  Now, if you want to read everything that I've written about Rossi Focardi, just click on the Rossi Focardi E-cat label at the end of this post. ( or any such post)  The blog will bring up all posts with that label.  I hope this is helpful.

Video link

Update:

Here's the 60 Minutes Broadcast on "Cold Fusion", which is not technically the same thing as the E-cat.  It is fusion, even though Fleishmann says in the video that it was a mistake to say that it was.



Update:

One more thing before I leave this post. In an earlier post, I couldn't understand where the iron was coming from. Well, here's an explanation.

Naturally occurring nickel (Ni) is composed of five stable isotopes; 58Ni,
60Ni,
61Ni,
62Ni and
64Ni with
58Ni being the most abundant
(68.077% natural abundance). 58Ni may decay by double beta-plus decay to 58Fe.